Thread: The return of Morgoth
Elves who truly hated the black one would never believed his lies again even had he been in the fairest form ever seen in arda.
Here then are my questions:
1.) Why would Eru who loved his children wish them to go trought pain and suffering by reviving the armies lost to morgoth
2.) From where would he get his apocalyptic army?
3.) His body is broken and much of his power is lost where would he get the strenght to break the chains that bind him?
edit: just as a afterthought i would like to thank vir for reminding me that morgoth would return... and i know there can be no specific answers (though i am known to be wrong at times) i would ask you for a theory or thoughts or anything
And maybe he could re-assemble his host from his own power as in my opinion to come back from the void he must have a certain measure of power. And there will surely be other spirits who were in the beginning with him joining him again as not all were destroyed in the battles with the Valar I guess.
"All that is gold does not glitter; not all those that wander are lost..." (by J.R.R.Tokien
Right you may be, my Dark Friend, for all that goes in eventually comes out. That is how Ea is. I will not wish to live to see it, for I am not much of a hero (I shall confess). Nor will I support it if it rests with me, for the Fallen-one can not be Lord of all, because he does not care about that ALL. All he wants is power, and then more power, power for it's own sake and yet power itself can not do any good, even to the one who possesses it. There is one more quatation I would like to put in
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends..." (J. R. R. Tolkien, LoTR, Book 4, Ch.1)
As wise as the Valar were, they did not destroyed their Brother, but left him outside the Realm of Arda (remainigs of the World at the end of the First Age).
May Earendil's light never fade and Morgoth's face never show under the stars. By Eru may it be true.
PS I am not trying to be a mope but like in the bible it says it is going to happen.
Then, live long and prosper; be happy; and hope he doesn't come back in the lifetimes of our progeny; and above all, don't worry about it..
One will come from eternal darkness
To set new order and new rules to come.
Driven from eternal hate and madness
To his final end shall he be done.
'Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Namo Mandos as judge -- and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and excecuted: that is killed like one of the Incarnates.'
Myths Transformed Text VII, Morgoth's Ring
Also in Morgoth's Ring Tolkien noted:
'The myth that appears at the end of the Silmarillion is of Numenorean origin; it is clearly made by Men, though Men acquainted with Elvish tradition.'
CJRT removed the Second Prophecy of Mandos for the 1977 Silmarillion and replaced it with a passage from the Valaquenta which says: '... and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwe and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.'
Emphasis here on '... it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos'.
Some interesting thoughts in here....
I suppose it's not entirely possible that (even though never specifically mentioned), he could pull a Sauron (or Voldemort, for that matter) and have placed a bit of his power in some sort of object, leaving his soul in M.E?
Or maybe some sort of servant will come from who knows where and find a way to bring him back using some lost silmaril or something. Keep in mind, Shelob was only severely wounded and there is no mention of her official death. And if you recall from I believe the Silmarillion, Shelob was the epitome of evil, everywhere she went things would darken and die, destroying entire forests just through passing. I believe she didn't even take the spider-form till much later, implying she has the ability to change.
I like to think that Morgoth will never be physically returned, but instead has a "ghost" or just some omniscient power that will forever roam Middle Earth and be the cause of sin and war and evil things.
Or maybe this is just my wishful thinking haha....
Edit: I just realized I was mistaken and it was Shelob's mother who wreaked all the havoc in the past. Still though, the daughter spider of a super evil being sounds pretty good too.
I thought it was at the end of the world...?
I have to say Vir... That new avatar of yours is awesome though I liked the old one better ^^
Let us pray Melkor, First of the Ainur, Morgoth Bauglir the Black Lord of Thangorodrim never returns. But know this, his malice lives on and is ever present in the overwhelmingly greedy and power hungry modern society of Men.
Therefore let us who know from whence this comes can do our part, no matter how small, to retain at least some memory of the beauty of the Elder Days when Elves still roamed the Lands.
From what I gathered from the History books, when Morgoth returns it will be just him against the powers, no big armies involved. Morgoth will apparently try to cast down the Sun, or something.
how do we know that Melkor haven't returned already?
We would know. Other evil forces around us are the ones scheming behind our backs, so that one day they can bring back the might of Morgoth and wipe out the world in one fell swoop. I feel like ripping open the rift between time and space would have some sort of immediate effect on the world. The skies would turn red or something. Maybe it'll just be a black hole and we'll all be dead in less than an instant. It's not like waking up from a coma or being cryogenically unfrozen, where life just goes on. Yeah, we'd know.
Also because there's pretty much nothing written about it. As far as we know this is the fourth age. If it's anything like other ages, there will be a build up of evil forces underground (literally or metaphorically) and then suddenly a great unleashing. I think we are definitely in a build up stage right now
Is Melkor a republican?
If Fingolfin was able to wound Melkor several times with a sword, Melkor might be in for a bit of a shock if he returned now days and found himself assaulted with stealth jets and helicopter gunships firing missiles at him.
Sad really hey.
Valar - "why have you forsaken me?"
I agree, Brego. Melkor tended to work behind the scenes, gaining people's trust and teaching them ways to bring about their own end, while at the same time spreading lies and dissent among the population. You can look all around you in our current world and imagine where is influence could be.
So we should be wary of those who come with ideas that are too good to be true and learn to recognize evil. Perhaps Hitler is an example of this kind of Evil. At first he was just a politician with a plan.....
I definitely agree Melkor's lies and influence control the world as we live it today. But I don't think Morgoth has returned, signifying the end of time as we know it. As Brego said, once all of the powerful nations have turned against each other, and every human is weak in spirit or ready to betray their brother, then will Morgoth return to make the final blow. And only then will the Valar return, and at last send him to his doom. Melkor didn't work behind the scenes. His servants did. Morgoth was always the one we knew was in his lair scheming against us. It was our neighbor or coworker that we didn't pay attention to...
Melkor would become so powerful that he would release the spirits of evil.Such as balrogs,orcs evil men and dragons,trolls ect...
great, Amras great. However, he's gonna need more n that to win the battle of the dagor dagorath
Im not so sure about that gothmog. In the last march upon the world it took a massive number of elves plus the valar to defeat all the orcs morgoth had, and when he released the dragons they were only defeated becouse of the eagles. By now the elves are gone and most men are evil and week, so dragons and balrogs would be enough to crush any army that fought for true good.
As to Balrogs and Dragons, both have all been destroyed. Morgoth does not have the ability to create new stuff. Just breed and twist. I'd assume all the fire worms (from which the dragons were bred) are all gone. But Morgoth would still be left with orcs, many corrupt men and I'm sure he could find other spirits and such to join him.
On the other hand Cur, elves didn't have have 300 megaton bombs capable of consuming any molecule in a certain mile radius, or high energy laser beams launched from the other side of the world, or supersonic jets capable of causing mountains to collapse.
The elves and men won with swords and siege weapons. I don't see how our technoclogy could be that much weaker. So as long as the Vala appear, we might have a chance...probably not but, it'd be quite the light show...
Tulkas and Orome,i don't think Morgoth would win.